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[r_jake]

Have just heard that the European Union have forced Microsoft to remove IE from Windows 7 when it is released in EU countries. It will have to be downloaded and installed separately, with the possibility that users could choose to install another browser in it's place.

Am interested to see how this pans out - what it does to IE's global market share, whether Google will push Chrome big time as a result, and whether other countries will press MS to follow suit for them...

Any thoughts?

[Tarvalon]

I'm not sure why most developers would care about this one much. IE6 is the problem child - I would absolutely rather see Windows 7 ship with IE8 in conjunction with a forced upgrade off of IE6 to IE8 than see Windows ship without a browser. Will most users even know how to go download a browser in absence of an on-screen instruction guide? Unlikely. So obviously this burden falls to the computer manufacturers:

Computer makers would then have the option to add the browser back in, ship another browser or ship multiple browsers

- http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10262630-56.html

Now, something tells me the major manufacturers are going to have not only outside pressure but market-related incentives to release their machines with Internet Explorer. What happens when a major manufacturer tells Microsoft and IE to hit the road? Suddenly the contracts and price points they've agreed upon will become "up for review by MS". And what happens on the consumer side? "What do you mean I don't get Internet Explorer? I've used that my whole life!".

Just because the OS is shipping without the browser does not mean it will not be released on the vast majority of machines anyways.

[Andy]

Will most users even know how to go download a browser in absence of an on-screen instruction guide? Unlikely.

Agreed.

The only way I could see that working would be if Windows 7 was shipped with an application repository like that in Ubuntu. Even so, chances are that people would install Internet Explorer in favour of browsers like Firefox out of sheer habit & familiarity.

[Parallax]

How do you hit up the interweb to download ANY browser w/o having one installed?

Do euro-macs ship with safari?

I'm just sayin' ...

[Andy]

How do you hit up the interweb to download ANY browser w/o having one installed?

The "interweb" is more than just the HTTP protocol. You have a wide array of different protocols, including FTP which happens to be baked in to the operating system.

"I'm just sayin' ...".

[Linda]

The "interweb" is more than just the HTTP protocol. You have a wide array of different protocols, including FTP which happens to be baked in to the operating system.

"I'm just sayin' ...".

I for one would not know how to go download firefox if my pc didnt come with an IE icon I could click... I have a feeling this is gonna be the same for most users who are not computer scientists.

[Andy]

I for one would not know how to go download firefox if my pc didnt come with an IE icon I could click... I have a feeling this is gonna be the same for most users who are not computer scientists.

Well, you see, that won't be a problem.

People who aren't tech-savvy won't be building their own computers and the computer manufacturers are going to ship with a browser of their choosing.

People who are tech-savvy on the other hand probably would know how to get a hold of a browser.

[Linda]

So places like Dell.com just have add another step asking you too chose a browser. Cool.

Actually my step-dad just bought a laptop, came with Windows Vista, and Safari as the default browser (in Norway so not neccessarily bound by the EU laws?).

[Andy]

So places like Dell.com just have add another step asking you too chose a browser. Cool.

It's more likely that Dell will choose for you, but yeah.

Actually my step-dad just bought a laptop, came with Windows Vista, and Safari as the default browser (in Norway so not neccessarily bound by the EU laws?).

It's true that Norway is not a member of the European Union, however they still have to adopt part of the EU legislations (roughly 10%). I'm not the best person to ask on whether or not Norway will be affected but personally I find it unlikely that they wouldn't.

[r_jake]

Have looked more into this story, and it seems as if stripping IE from Windows is Microsoft's way of wriggling out of having to include a choice of browsers with the install. As Tarvalon has suggested, they can then pressure computer manufacturers into putting it back in, and since 95% of Windows purchases are those that come with a new computer, nothing much has changed.

I still find it interesting though, since IE has always been hardwired into the operating system (which is why you can't have different versions installed at the same time without third party hacks ala Multiple IEs) and in the past MS have claimed that it was technically unworkable to separate the two. Now they seemed to have managed it - amazing!

Apparently the European Commission is still pushing for a choice of browsers to be presented at first boot - and if they win the case MS will have to go for this after all, and we can sit back and watch Mozilla, Google and Apple get their marketing guns out.

[Zim]

Yeah its strange, i thought i was worldwide, not just in the EU

[Parallax]

How do you hit up the interweb to download ANY browser w/o having one installed?

The "interweb" is more than just the HTTP protocol. You have a wide array of different protocols, including FTP which happens to be baked in to the operating system.

"I'm just sayin' ...".

I know ... I would probably just go DL it from one of my other computers, or a work computer, or one of the FTP sites I run ... the general public wouldn't. I suppose I should have phrased my post differently.

So does anyone know if Macs are still shipping with Safari in EU?

[Andy]

So does anyone know if Macs are still shipping with Safari in EU?

Yes, they are.

[r_jake]

So does anyone know if Macs are still shipping with Safari in EU?

Yes, they are.

Yeah, it seems a bit hypocritical doesn't it? I'm guessing that the reason why Apple aren't getting targeted is that a Mac is an exclusive package - the hardware, OS and pre-installed applications are all put together by the one company and presented to the consumer as such. Still doesn't seem quite right though, as far as I know, new Macs don't come with Firefox or Opera...

[Tarvalon]

I disagree. The size and scope of Macs puts in a completely different ballpark. The company is not encroaching on monopoly power nor using strong-arm tactics to force it's products on users. With the small consumer base Apple is looking at, they can continue to do whatever they damn well please. If they grow to the size of MS, however, then they should and will run into the same issues.

That most recent IE bullshit propaganda they just put out is simply one more example of a large company trying to force their product down users' collective throats: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/get-the-facts/browser-comparison.aspx